Maggie, you officially gave me the chills this morning when you reminded us of walt's warning! I love lost!! (And I love this website!! seriously, my friend sent me here last year to read TAR recaps and I've been hooked ever since)

Soosan at October 6, 2005 06:52 AM

Questions: Is the magnetic pull business supposedly what is making people 'sick'? And is the magnetic pull of the island the reason John Locke is able to walk? And is the button the 'thing' that resets the magnetic pull (it could be some sort of generator down there - remember the Jack's key pulling towards the wall?)?

Grace at October 6, 2005 07:17 AM

Freaked me out at the end of the preview for next week when Jin spoke perfect English. Not sure why that would freak me out considering, you know, all the crazy shit that goes on.

Michael at October 6, 2005 08:01 AM

If Jin could speak English all along (and the geekboy and I think that we're seeing some sort of dream or flashback), I will be pissed. There have been way too many scenes of him not understanding - he was nearly killed over the whole watch thing with Michael.

Anyway. We were thinking that maybe Sarah's healing reverses itself at some point, and she gets sick again. And Jack can't save her. And maybe even Jack has to kill her, because he loves her. That could mess with a man's head.

I still can't figure out Desmond - regular guy or bad man. And did anyone wonder if Dead Kelvin was Ethan? I don't think the timing works out, though.

What was cut from the film? I HAVE TO KNOW!

And I don't get the whole Michelle Rodriguez thing...I thought she had some nice chemistry with Sawyer, though. We know she was in the airport, we know she was supposed to be on the plane, but we never saw her on it. Are she and her big man friend Others or are they fellow survivors?

We have been through three episodes and less than 24 hours have passed on that island. It's maddening!

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 08:16 AM

I was wondering too about Ethan/Kelvin but that's all it was.. wondering. I still want to know what exactly happened to Claire while she was abducted too.

Soosan at October 6, 2005 08:49 AM

I have a hard time believing that the show creators would choose to reveal to us the fact that Jin speaks English in a preview for next week. Not after the huge dramatic impact they achieved with Sun. Why waste such a jaw-dropping moment? Also, Jin seemed to be speaking Daniel Dae Kim English, not the inflected kind of ESL English that Sun speaks.

All of which leads me to believe that ABC is just effing with us, and that somebody's either having a dream or a hallucination.

And hello, was it just me, or was that William B. Davis (CSM from X-Files) playing the Hanso dude, standing up in that window during the orientation film?

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 08:51 AM

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 08:58 AM

Oh yeah, and how much do we all love this ...

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 08:58 AM

Ha ha!

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 09:00 AM

Wow, at the exact same minute and everything.

We've been married too long.

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 09:17 AM

you have both freaked me out more than LOST itself. Whoever thought it possible.

Soosan at October 6, 2005 09:19 AM

There was something about DDK learning to speak Korean-inflected English for the show and that wasn't what we heard, so you must be right, freak and Geek.

Michael at October 6, 2005 09:34 AM

I don't think Kelvin was Ethan because Desmond said something about Kelvin dying waiting for his replacements.

As for girl from the plane - I think the first part of the story she told Sawyer was true. Only, instead of being kidnapped that morning by the Others, it happened way earlier and she had infiltrated her way in. I don't think they are from the plane like she is though - she is wearing clothes with about as much wear as the rest of the crash survivors while the Others are sporting crazy castaway desert island wear.

genevieve at October 6, 2005 09:39 AM

Oooh, that website is cool. So the company is contemporary with ongoing projects. Secret projects.


Michael at October 6, 2005 09:42 AM

Can someone explain to me why Locke and the others insisted that JACK be the one to push the button? What difference did it make who pushed it? They wanted it pushed, why didn't they push it?

This episode was much better than the previous one, I think. That choppy film about Hanso/Dharma was maddening, but in that good way.

Julie at October 6, 2005 10:10 AM

By the way, 108 minutes would be the most evil number to have to schedule something 24/7. You would get enough sleep to survive, but you would never get into the R.E.M. stage, which keeps us from going insane.

And, the most frightening thing of all, when you go to the Hanso site and click "terms of use," you are redirected to the Walt Disney Interactive Group. AHHHHHHHHHH!

Dave at October 6, 2005 10:12 AM

I think they wanted Jack to push it because he was the one that didn't believe it 'needed' to be pushed.

Todd at October 6, 2005 10:13 AM

I think it was because in the HANSO recording the instructions were for you and your partner to alternate button pushing.

Soosan at October 6, 2005 10:16 AM

If I were Sayid, I would have slapped them both, pushed the button myself, and said, "Okay, assholes, now you have 108 minutes to work out your problems." And then go and find some chocolate in that supply closet.

Speaking of which, the actor who plays Hurley's weight loss is quite noticeable, don't you think?

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 10:19 AM

Firstly, can I say that there isn't a wrose actor with worse lines on TV than Sawyer? Yet I still love him, weird. Anyway, I find it strange that they revealed so much so quickly. There are still plenty of mysteries, but now we know vaguely what the heck is going on with the island. As far as the projects that Hanso is involved with, very interesting.
1. Life extension - speaks for itself.
2. Electromagnetic research - could be how all these boats and planes are sucked in.
3. Quest for E.T. intelligence - who knows?
4. Mathmatical forecasting initiative - who knows.
5. Cryogenics Development Imperative - could explain the polar bear - they were trying to control the weather on the island.
6. Juxtapositional Eugenics Development - creepiset one of all - hereditary improvement through selective breeding - trying to create a "super race".
7. Accelerated Remote Viewing Facility - not sure what this could be either.

chuck at October 6, 2005 10:54 AM

Thanks for the Hanso Foundation link! Neat.

I was also wondering if the EM field on the island could be the reason Locke can walk again. If that's the case, remember when he was having trouble walking? What was he doing then? Was he near the hatch? He was working on it with Boone, right? Was the magnetic field somehow interrupted?

It hadn't even occurred to me that Desmond has only been able to sleep for a maximum of about 100 minutes at a time. I like him and I hope we see him again.

Re: Michelle Rodriguez and the Others - it was my impression that those weren't the Others, but other tail section survivors. When they were draggin Jin, Michael and Sawyer to the hole, I noticed that one of the women had a light blue dress shirt and a skirt on - definitely not the clothes of someone who's been on the island for a long time but of an airline passenger, or maybe crew. If they are from the plane, I wonder what made them go the Lord of the Flies route when our castaways did not? And is the black man Bernard?

That episode rocked.

gina at October 6, 2005 10:54 AM

I realize that it's probably maddening for some people, but I kind of like that with both Jack and Locke, it's always about "why". Basically, there was a whole philosophical debate going on between the two of them at the end of the episode there, and when Jack pushed that button, Locke won ... at least this round. The other castaways seem to respect this high-level dynamic between them, and go along with it, and often allow their destinies to be determined by it.

Is it a contrivance of the writers intended to create excess drama and tension? Hell yeah. But I love it. The show would be boring to me if everybody just did what made the most sense at every moment.

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 10:54 AM

I also think the "others" that got the raft crew are tail section survivors. Several of teh women had on skirts and blouses whent hey were coming over the hill all mad max. I think they either got sick or just went more Lor of the Flies than Jack and the gang.

Geekboy - help us figure out the other shit with HANSO - what could mathmatical forcasting relate to and what in the world is accelerated remote viewing?

chuck at October 6, 2005 11:00 AM

This part that Chuck mentioned - "hereditary improvement through selective breeding" - sort of plays into the geekboy's theory that Walter was genetically engineered, perhaps by his mother.

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 11:05 AM

and also why ethan was just so super strong... a product of genetics?

Soosan at October 6, 2005 11:07 AM

EXACTLY PEOPLE. ALso, did anyone else think Locke's line about wathcing the film again was a slight nod to the TIVO obsessed LOST fans (me included)?

chuck at October 6, 2005 11:09 AM

yes chuck! (well apart from the TIVO aspect.. since I don't have it) I was thinking.. woah can we see that again?

I was excpecting it to disintegrate actually, I'm just glad we got through most of it the first time round.

Soosan at October 6, 2005 11:11 AM

Holy crap, people, check this out:

"Remote viewing (RV) is a procedure developed by parapsychologists at the Stanford Research Institute and an artist, Ingo Swann, to allegedly perform clairvoyance under controlled conditions. Somewhat similar to astral projection, the phenomenon involves a belief in the projection of consciousness to remote locations."

You know, the way Walter appeared to Shannon???? Swann?

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 11:16 AM

Damn - you beat me to it Deb. I thought Walt seemed slightly translucent when he appeared to Shannon and no one else agreed with me.

chuck at October 6, 2005 11:42 AM

Also, this...

Swann proposed the idea of Coordinate Remote Viewing, a process in which viewers would view a location given nothing but its geographical coordinates, which was developed and tested by Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ with CIA funding.

chuck at October 6, 2005 11:45 AM

oh oh oh *raises hand* oh oh oh! I have a question!!

What was the name of the crazy guy that Hurley got the #'s from? Any chance he was once on the island pushing a button every 108 hours.. that's enough to turn anyone crazy.

Soosan at October 6, 2005 11:53 AM

Soosan, I saw that speculation on another board. How interesting. If that's the case, how did that guy get off the island? All these small things open up the possibility to so many more flashbacks, which I generally really enjoy.

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 12:10 PM

HANSO foundation-Han Solo foundation?

mnkekaos at October 6, 2005 12:36 PM

Chuck, mathematical forecasting is a broad term used to describe the ability to predict things using mathematical extrapolations of current measurements. Like guessing where a hurricane will be in three days. And businesses use M.F. when they create their budgets. And engineers use M.F. to determine if building X will fall down if subjected to winds gusting at Y miles per hour.

So what kind of M.F. is Hanso pursuing? What are they trying to predict? I feel like it's probably something big. What if everything that's playing out on the show is just the playing out of one hugely complex equation? Make sure this person ends up in this seat on this plane, which crashes on this island ...

And of course, you can't throw the word "mathematical" out there without thinking about those magic numbers we've all come to know and love.

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 12:38 PM

In the realm of the whole 'can we watch that again' Tivo thing, I think the whole non-product placement thing is funny. As in, it seems like every show where someone has a laptop it's a Mac, but on Lost they have an Apple 2E.

genevieve at October 6, 2005 12:39 PM

Man, I just can't keep up with the conversation here AND in the long Lost email chain I have with my friends. I think I'm gonna have to become a lurker here for a while, just chiming in once in a while. I do have 1 or two things to add...

1) Regarding the Hanso site. Check out this webdesign reference image I found on the site: Looks like we might be getting video on that site eventially.

2) Speaking of video, anyone know where I can get a transcript of the orientation film?

3) Check out this thread that's been going on since episode two:;=30

Basically it takes screencaps from episode 1 of the stuff down the hatch, and compares it to caps from episode 2. The contents and condition of the items around are VERY different. This started a theory that the montage at the beginning is actually a different time period, which then cut to present day when the explosion hit. I watched last night's hatch orientation VERY closely (and I went back with the TiVo afterwards), and I can report that the contents of the hatch have gone back to their Episode 1 look, which makes me think a) the montage in episode 1 was in the present, not the past and b) it was done on purpose. There's no way they's redress the set wrong twice. What say you?

Joey Jo-Jo at October 6, 2005 12:41 PM

GB, I knew you'd have the muthafankin answers - you da man!

chuck at October 6, 2005 12:52 PM

Joey jo jo, apart from the fact I love your name, wow, what an interesting theory too! Consider my brain officially imploded.

Soosan at October 6, 2005 12:55 PM

First: I hate people who don't seed. Specifically from thepiratebay dot org. Cripes.

Second, I thought the "the button is bad" theory had been debunked, and that Walt actually said "NO button is bad." That was the speculation on thefuselage and SomethingAwful after they heard an interview with Damon, maybe?

On lost-forums there is a dude who did an entire map of the hatch. By 20 degree angles or something ridic like that. I'll see if I can find the link for those interested.

sar at October 6, 2005 01:04 PM

Another idea - It bothered me quite a bit that the orientation film looked so crappily faked to look like it was from teh 70's/80's. I was bitching about the fact that they didn't just shoot it on 16 mm film instead of using DV and colorizing and "film looking" the final. MAYBE that's the point. Maybe the film wasn't made in the 70's but is a modern fake made to keep whatever the heck is going on there goin on.

chuck at October 6, 2005 01:07 PM

oh, also, remember last year when it was speculated upon that jin knew english? i kind of expected that.

the crazy guy that gave hurley the numbers' name was lenny.

sar at October 6, 2005 01:12 PM

I'm going on record now to say that Jin speaking english will be a deam sequence/vision.

I mean, seriously, I think if he could speak english, I think he would have used it last week to, you know, warn Mike and Sawyer that The Others were coming to beat the crap out of them.

Joey Jo-Jo at October 6, 2005 01:17 PM

Here's something cool I ran across on another site, which I had to share ...

4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42

Count left to right, top to bottom.

With the exception of 4, every number is in its own position. 8 is the 8th, 15 is the 15th, etc.

All this means, of course, is that one of the writers is a math geek, and that this is probably how they came up with the sequence.

But I wonder why they made the first number 4, instead of 1?

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 01:25 PM

Why? Sun probably wouldn't have revealed that she spoke English had she not NEEDED to protect Jin and explain to Michael what happened with the watch. It's like when you're so far into a lie that you can't possibly back out. Maybe after the third day or something you could have revealed it was a lie and not lost your butt on it. But after Jin didn't speak to Sun for however long 'cuz he was all bent out of shape about HER speaking English, it's not like he can really at this point be like "Oh, me too! YAY!"

But I would prefer for the sake of the storyline that you all are right and it's a dream.

sar at October 6, 2005 01:26 PM

simply 4 the sake of conversation geekboy :)

Soosan at October 6, 2005 01:26 PM

In fact, remember the scene in "...In Translation" where they're yelling at Jin about the burning of the raft, and they cut to Jin's persoective and everyone's speaking gibberish? Obviously they were trying to make it clear he does not speak english. Sure he's picked up enough by now to understand a little by now, but not enough to speak a clear sentence with no accent whatsoever.

Joey Jo-Jo at October 6, 2005 01:28 PM

Regarding the speculation about who the Others are...I think that they comprise two factions...the original Others that the French woman fears (remember, they took her son, Alex) AND the tail section of the plane. We know Michelle Rodriguez was definitely on the plane...Jack met her in the airport bar prior to boarding, and she was wearing the same clothes in last night's ep. I think the tail section survivors landed amongst the Others, and so became part of them. Think about it...they are in total shock and have experienced serious trauma. They would be very easily influenced at that point, and it's really no surprise that they would become as aggressive as the Others are.

It seems that we got a different "next time on Lost" than you guys did. We didn't see anything about Jin speaking English, but we did see the black woman who believes her husband is still alive (the woman who suggested that to the tail end passengers it would seem as though they were the only survivors as well). In the clip, Jack was showing her around the bunker.

Did anyone notice the hidden link on the projects page at Hanso? Underneath the last link, if you hover your mouse, you will see "Dharma Initiative". However, it doesn't open. Frustrating!

Maggie at October 6, 2005 01:32 PM

Maggies, CTV always shows a different promo. Also lost ends a few minutes earlier for us, so you can watch that promo, then switch over to ABC. :) The ABC promo is also very fast paced and exciting, and CTV is more dialogue.

Soosan at October 6, 2005 01:41 PM

If you go to [I think?] it has the Dharma logo, but won't open either. IP ACCESS DENIED.

It must have cut your preview or something, Maggie, because the Jin speaking English thing is at the very end of that preview. Let me know if you want to d/l the whole preview and I'll hook you up with the link.

I heard there's an entire Rose episode later in the year, which makes me think she's about to become a more major character. "How Rose Got Her Groove Back." LOVES.

[by the way, I thought the Jin/English thing would be considered a spoiler. Are we not considering previews spoilers? Because that's awesome! I always assume people watch the previews, but some people really don't.]

sar at October 6, 2005 01:42 PM

Maggie, I do think that the raft party captors are other crash survivors, but allow me to play devil's advocate...

We know Michelle Rodriguez was definitely on the plane. Jack met her in the airport bar prior to boarding, and she was wearing the same clothes in last night's ep.

We don't know she was on the plane. We saw her in the airport bar and maybe she's wearing the same clothes, but after everything we've seen on this show and with the new information about possible astral projection and such, maybe she wasn't on the plane at all...

And GB - I love the # sequence thing and I too think that it is the result of a very creative/intelligent staff of writers.

chuck at October 6, 2005 01:43 PM

My theory? Its some sort of experiment and I think that Ana Maria (or whoever- Michelle Rodriguez) is part of the scientific team.

Why would that group be the survivors ...or how could they be the surviviors and be called "the Others" if Danielle has known that there was a group of "Others" on the island for 10-16 years? Are there two groups of people...well 3....1)the front section 2) the tail section 3)a whole mess of people from previous landings...

Oooh! Ohh! Something tells me that the "Others" are people banding together from past crashes...the one black dude MAY be from that Nigerian cocaine run plane crash... Just imagine how many different crash there are now! (Black Rock Ship, Danielle's boat, coke plane, Flt 815...)

Interesting footage of next week. Not too happy on Hurley pigging out...

FuzzDuckie at October 6, 2005 01:45 PM

Maggie: Ah, I guess you're in Canada? At the end of the US preview we got a shot of a beat-up looking Jin saying "Everything's going to change." Here's a screencap:

If you look in the left hand corner, it looks like the top of a yellow mascot head, which I think fits into my dream/vision idea. (Jin showing up in a big goofy yellow mascot outfit and saying that in a vision would definitely fit in a comedic Hurley episode.)

Joey Jo-Jo at October 6, 2005 01:45 PM

Also - Maggie, not only was Jin speaking English, he was speaking AMERICAN. Not even a hint of an accent or broken english.

chuck at October 6, 2005 01:45 PM

Perhaps Hurley eats too much candy and has sugar-shock hallucinations? Heh.

Chuck, I had the thought M.R. (I think her name was Anna Lucia) was a plant, but I figured the same-clothes thing was the producers way of letting us know she was on the plane. You could be right either way.

I really want to know where the hell on the planet this island is located. I think Desmond's boat crashed coming from Sydney as well, because of that photo of him and his girlfriend(?) in front of the Opera House.

Also, since no one mentioned it, I thought I should point out that polar bears were featured in the orientation film.

I love this show, I love how they included that bit about Walt astral projecting and speaking backward, trusting the audience to figure it out in time for the next ep where his words would have meaning. I love how everything has taken off and spawned countless boards and sites where this stuff is analyzed. I love the whole thing.

Back to Jack and Desmond...that the two of them are on the island is no coincidence, but why? It's no coincidence that Hurley and Locke are connected by the box company, but how did they come to be on the plane together? How long have these people been followed, watched and manipulated into making the choices that led them all to be on flight 815? It's just so vast.

Remember the weird circumstances involving Claire's decision to be on the plane? I want to know if Turniphead has superpowers or if the psychic was a Hanso operative. Or is Turniphead like Walt? Claire's pregnancy was unplanned and now I'm wondering crazy things like did Hanso have something to do with that, as well.

Did Jack actually heal his wife, or did Hanso do it? Did Hanso do EVERYTHING?

Maggie at October 6, 2005 02:08 PM

Whoever they are -- others, passengers, scientists, whatever -- they're not particularly bright. Wouldn't you check your prisoners for weapons *before* you put them in jail?

Cory at October 6, 2005 02:13 PM

That's true about Michele Rodriguez's character - she did tell Jack that she did have a seat on the plane, but we didn't see her on the plane actually.

I love this site - you guys always come up with things I never even noticed, and I think I pay attention pretty well. :)

Did anyone notice that Sawyer called Jin "Chewy" as in "Chewbacca" in the pit last night? I thought that was funny.

maddie at October 6, 2005 02:17 PM

I don't understand why it's so surprising Jin speaks perfect english. Last season he was seriously contemplating leaving the Korean Mafia, when he was pulled back in by the American fella in the airport. Had he left Korea for good, where would he go, sans any other language skills?

Ara at October 6, 2005 02:22 PM

It's surprising because, as I mentioned above about the scene in "...In Translation", they firmly established that Jin doesn't speak english. If now suddenly he does, that's just the writers cheating.

Joey Jo-Jo at October 6, 2005 02:27 PM

Man, so many great ideas, I can't keep up with then all!

The stuff on remote viewing and Mr. Swann is very interesting. As was Soosan's question about the guy who gave Hurley the numbers.

As far as Jin speaking English, I'm leaning toward agreeing with those who say it's from a dream or something. There have been moments where it made no sense for him to continue to pretend: When he was getting the poop kicked out him by Michael and when he was trying to warn Michael and Sawyer about the Udders, are 2 that come to mind. And while we were given a good reason for Sun to pretend, I can't find any reason for Jin to do so.

Speaking of Sun, I miss her!

Great theorizing, everyone :).

gina at October 6, 2005 02:29 PM

Ara, for me it's from the fact that he was on the beach last week, struggling to get out one english word "Others" with a very heavy Korean accent. The clip for next week indicates a perfect American accent.

chuck at October 6, 2005 02:29 PM

Maddie, Sawyer referred to Jin as Chewy last season when they were still building the was hilarious. Jin spoke Korean to Michael, who answered in English as though they understood each other perfectly, which prompted Sawyer to give Jin the nickname.

Ara, many people immigrate without speaking the language. There are huge Korean communities in most major North American cities. My parents came to Canada without knowing a word of English and they both managed to figure it out.

Maggie at October 6, 2005 02:30 PM

And Maggie, I like your idead about it all being a vast experiment by Hanso.


gina at October 6, 2005 02:32 PM

I hope the series doesn't end up being a whole Wizard of Oz type solution! :) The all powerful Hanso... muahah!

Soosan at October 6, 2005 02:35 PM

by wizard of Oz, i'm meaning it's all an elaborate dream sequence of course.

Soosan at October 6, 2005 02:41 PM

"Maddie, Sawyer referred to Jin as Chewy last season when they were still building the was hilarious."

Maggie, thanks. How did I miss that? That would be something I would find so hilarious. I probably just forgot.

maddie at October 6, 2005 02:49 PM

point taken, but are we to expect Jin, who is this Korean traditionalist, is going to not only leave Korea but also his Economic station in life to move to America/elsewhere and lead a life in a lower ecominic station than his current lifestyle?

Ara at October 6, 2005 03:00 PM

Uh, I guess we'll find out when more backstory is revealed.

chuck at October 6, 2005 03:05 PM

Soosan I also wondered about the guy Hurley got the lottery #s from. They were in a sanitarium right? Is he Kelvin? Did the guy in window on the film look like Lockes kidney stealing father? Is Jins english just so we know what hes saying? FG I like your Ingo Swan thing.

leah at October 6, 2005 03:34 PM

So whos cutting Desmonds hair? They made Jacks hair look differnt in the flash back, why is Desmonds hair still the same?

leah at October 6, 2005 03:39 PM

Ara: Sure, why not?

My father's side of the family came to Canada from the then-Yugoslavia because of communism. My grandmother was from an affluent family that owned businesses and a vineyard, and my grandfather was a tailor with a shop and they had plenty of money. They lost everything and came to Canada with nothing but a little bit of money that my grandfather smuggled out of the country through Greece and Bulgaria. The five of them (grandparents, dad and two aunts) had to live in one room of a house in downtown Toronto while they rented out all the other rooms for money. They didn't speak any English when they arrived.

I just mean to give you an example that this is a common thing to do. Pretty much everyone in my family (both sides) emigrated in this fashion, in the early 60s. Some came here, some to the US, and my mom's brothers went to Sweden and Australia.

Also, Jin and Sun are very resourceful characters and it's totally in the realm of possibility for them to do it.

Maggie at October 6, 2005 03:40 PM

leah, it was pointed out by sar that the #'s guy was named Lenny. And yes it was at a sanitarium. It doesn't make complete sense timewise to me that he would have been pushing the button, but it is certainly another one of those huge mysteries we need to revisit. With Hurley having an episode next week I'm hoping we get another puzzle piece!!

I am starting to lose track of all the sources of people on the show... various boats and planes and others and monters and non monsters and sharks and Lions and tigers and bears oh my! (wiz of oz.. again)

Soosan at October 6, 2005 03:40 PM

Ah, but while it's not likely that Kelvin and Lenny are the same dude, it's not unlikely that Lenny, at some point in his life before the loony bin, was a bona-fide Dharma Button Pusher. Perhaps it's what drove him mad. Perhaps he escaped the island and ended up in the bin with Hurley.

Maggie at October 6, 2005 03:45 PM

Ara, keep in mind -- Jin is the son of a fisherman. So whatever "economic station" he might have risen to while working for Sun's father, there's a lower/middle class child still living inside him. And by the time he left Korea, he had a very clear picture of what gaining that economic station had done to his soul. I think he was ready to start over from scratch someplace, with a (relatively) clean conscience and a wife who loves him.

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 03:47 PM

Check out this screencap:

Looks to me like that magazine with the light green top says "June 2003". Maybe be a prop mistake, but if it's not....

Joey Jo-Jo at October 6, 2005 03:57 PM

Weird. It looks like an Oprah mag.

Not like I know what those look like or anything, uh....

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 04:09 PM

I thought Hurley was in some kind of mental hospital, not a sanitarium. Am I wrong? I guess if it were a sanitarium, maybe he had some kind of disease? I need to check, this whole time I was thinking the speculation on Hurley related to a mental health issue.

Maggie - love the comment about Lenny - makes complete sense, he doesn't have to be Kelvin to have had hatch duty.

chuck at October 6, 2005 04:52 PM

Meanwhile, nobody's commenting about the book that's right next to the magazine, "ECG Workout: Exercises in Arrhythmia Interpretation", fourth edition. I did some quick research on this. The book was published in December 2001, and seems to be aimed at nursing students.

Here's a table of contents ...

For the non-nurses out there, an arrhythmia is "an irregularity in the force or rhythm of the heartbeat". So why does Desmond have a testbook written for nurses about irregular heartbeats? Does this have something to do with the injections he takes?

Also, does 2001 jive with how long he's supposed to have been on the island?

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 04:55 PM

How effing stressful must it be to be a prop person on this show, knowing that EVERY SINGLE THING you put on that set is going to be tivoed and screen-capped and researched and analyzed to exhaustion?

So ... who's read "The Third Policeman"?

GeekBoy at October 6, 2005 05:03 PM

I was about to post how 2001 doesn't fit because Desmond didn't arrive until 2002, but then I remembered that you are allowed to possess books that have been published in the past. Duh.

Not everything in the hatch needs to correspond to that date because any previous Button Pusher could have brought things whenever they arrived for duty. But there really shouldn't be anything in there later than 2002, unless Desmond is lying. Personally, I don't think he is. I think he's a decent guy that's a little crazy from lack of sleep.

Maggie at October 6, 2005 05:05 PM

Chuck, I looked up sanitorium (correct spelling), and it says this -

"An institution for the treatment of chronic diseases or for medically supervised recuperation."

I was always under the impression that it included mental illness, especially that second part of the definition. Plus how Hurley's always yelling, "I'm not crazy!" makes me think that, at some point, most of his world probably thought he was. His mother had mentioned some sort of depression.

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 05:05 PM

I'm pretty sure a sanitorium isn't for mental problems, but regardless, Hurley said he was in a "kind of psych ward". The whole sanitarium thing freaked me out, he could have had TB or rickets!!!!

Maggie - regarding your Lenny thing - didn't Hurley previously say Lenny heard the numbers from a transition while on a remote post? And wasn't there someone else there with him that used the numbers and then blew his brains out? Does this jibe with (y)our theory?

And GB, speaking of jibe, did you mean to type jibe instead of jive on your post? The only reason I ask is because the word jibe is one of my favorite words and everyone always incorrectly says jive. But it's hard to tell online because the b and v are beside each other so it could always be a typo!

chuck at October 6, 2005 05:44 PM

Interesting - I was looking at old scripts to reread Hurley's visit with Leonard and it said this in the screen direction -

Hurley walks over to Leonard Simms who continues to grunt rhythmically. Hurley is wearing a badge that's labeled:


So then I go to the Santa Rosa Institue and guess what? It's a genetics research company aimed at prolonging human life. I love these little hints they drop.

chuck at October 6, 2005 05:53 PM


My god, I am so jealous of y'alls love for this show. Just.don'

BTW, my first cynical thought was Jin's "perfect English" is the networks desire to kill the subtitles on their #1 show. So "English" is the new "fluent Korean."

And is it wrong of me to think of Ren and Stimpy vs. the History Eraser Button? "Push the button. The beeyootiful SHINY button! The jolly CANDY-LIKE button!"

I think my soul is dead.

Janet at October 6, 2005 06:06 PM

Maggie, ok so Lenny was posted in remote Australia with another guy listening to long range radio broadcasts in the Navy when they heard the numbers. The other guy used them and blew his head off and Lenny ended up in a mental hospital. So I guess it's unlikely he was also on hatch duty, which is a shmae because I really liked that theory. Poo.

Also, here's a link to a LOST call sheet. Just thought those of who've never seen one of these might find it interesting. If you have any questions lemme know, I've passed out a billion of them.

And if I post again, somebody shoot me please.

chuck at October 6, 2005 06:09 PM

Chuck, I love how into this you are. Keep it up, the enthusiasm is infectious.

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 06:35 PM

Chuck = LOSER

chuck at October 6, 2005 07:22 PM

Hey, at least your soul isn't dead, like Janet. ;)

freakgirl at October 6, 2005 07:27 PM

Other book: Dirty Work by Stuart Woods.;=books

I went to three bookstores a couple weeks ago to try and get The Third Policeman and they were ALL SOLD OUT. Lost dorks, no less. Loves it!

sar at October 6, 2005 07:29 PM

If you look at the Santa Rosa Institute's News releases, they're working on some very interesting little drugs...

First, there's Envigor: "Patients taking the drug Envigor® can maintain a high level of mental alertness even after being awake for 48 hours...." -- like being able to push a button every 108 minutes?

Then there's Genuflex, designed to reverse the effects of aging...which suggests that people taking it may not look their how long exactly have Ethan & the Others been on the island?

And the most interesting -- see "Statement from Dr. Edward Westhead, CEO, Santa Rosa Institute":
It is no secret that some people are opposed to the research we are doing at the Institute....However, they are not entitled to play loose with the facts. Recently, our opponents have been publishing a series of lies and half-truths regarding a study recently released by the Institute. The study in question showed that the drug Genuflex reverses the effects of aging in mice. Our opponents are claming that the mice in the study experienced alarming changes in behavior. These allegations are untrue. While there was a disruption in the circadian rhythms of some mice, this happened in such a small number as to be statistically insignificant. Claims regarding an increase in bloodlust and aggression in the mice are categorically untrue....

Hmmm....aggression and bloodlust....where have we seen those? Ethan...the Nigerian...the Others...the other survivors?

Oh, and what exactly is Desmond injecting? Envigor? Genuflex?

I can't believe I'm obsessing this much. Here in Boston, at least, Lost wasn't on until 11:35...which meant I ran into work screaming "did anyone stay up and watch Lost? I have to talk about it with someone!"

Ridiculous. Just ridiculous.

ladyjane at October 6, 2005 08:00 PM

aw, ladyjane. don't worry, chuck and i are right there with you. i mean, not with the staying up 'till midnight, but with the obsession.

i love that there are other people who are [as] crazy about the show.

sar at October 6, 2005 09:22 PM

do we need an obsessive group hug everybody?

c'mon... group hug!

Soosan at October 6, 2005 10:43 PM

Oh right, and nobody commented on the other book in the hatch.

"The Turn of the Screw". I looked it up on amazon and the plot sounded strangely familiar to the Nicole Kidman movie, "The Others?" Was it remade into that movie? anyone?

Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnn. I don't think it's a pivotal plot thing, just a hey look how cute and smart our writing team is. go us!

Soosan at October 6, 2005 10:49 PM

Chuck...yes, it's a shame that Lenny doesn't fit in that way. I had forgotten the circumstances...the woman Hurley went to see that day was the wife of the the guy who shot himself. Crap. And by the way, that SRI discovery was awesome.

Maggie at October 7, 2005 02:54 AM

Ladyjane, I'm also in the Boston area and while wanting to take a break from watching the Sox game around 9:05 pm I noticed that Lost was on (at 9:00) on channel 9 (NH or RI channel...not sure which)!
So I just caught the episode and was able to get my beauty sleep too! :)

DaisyLou2 at October 7, 2005 08:31 AM

Oh, come on. We can't muster up 6 more obsessive comments to push this thread up over 100? I'm disappointed in you people.

GeekBoy at October 7, 2005 09:34 AM

Maggie wrote:

"I really want to know where the hell on the planet this island is located. I think Desmond's boat crashed coming from Sydney as well, because of that photo of him and his girlfriend(?) in front of the Opera House."

I don't know if this has been posted here, if you go to google maps and type in the following, you'll get your answer:

4.815 162.342

Make sure to zoom way out.

yahtzee at October 7, 2005 09:43 AM

do deee dooo 97? :0

Soosan at October 7, 2005 09:54 AM

That google maps thing gave me goosebumps.

maddie at October 7, 2005 10:12 AM

this show gives me goosebumps! That first time it was revealed the #'s were on the side of the hatch... yikes

Soosan at October 7, 2005 10:20 AM

100 baby!

DaisyLou2 at October 7, 2005 10:46 AM

ooooooooooh get on wit yo bad self

Soosan at October 7, 2005 10:47 AM

..and I apologize for not being able to think of anything cooler than "100 baby!".

DaisyLou2 at October 7, 2005 10:47 AM

I think the real question is.. will we reach 108? ;)

Soosan at October 7, 2005 11:04 AM

"I was about to post how 2001 doesn't fit because Desmond didn't arrive until 2002, but then I remembered that you are allowed to possess books that have been published in the past. Duh."

Actually, in *show time* it's late October 2004. The plane crashed in September of 2004 and it's been 44 days. So Desmond would have been there approximately October 2001. But, I think Desmond's measurement of time is probably unreliable.

Joey Jo-Jo at October 7, 2005 11:12 AM

Holy crap, that coordinates thing is insane. Just how long did the writers take coming up with that string of magic numbers?

GeekBoy at October 7, 2005 12:14 PM

That coordinates thing blows my mind. AGAIN!

I'm pretty sure no one else has mentioned this--but if they have, I apologize--but I keep wondering, what if pressing the button is exactly what keeps them trapped on that island? They THINK that by pushing it, they're saving the world, when in fact, by pushing it, they're keeping themselves trapped. And if someone just had the guts to NOT push it, they'd be free.

Rain at October 7, 2005 01:01 PM

I think they most likely just picked a spot that worked for them and used the coordinates for the numbers. We always knew they were coordinates right?

chuck at October 7, 2005 01:04 PM

"They THINK that by pushing it, they're saving the world, when in fact, by pushing it, they're keeping themselves trapped."

I was thinking the same thing during the last episode. I really wanted them to NOT push the button, and see what happens. The fear of the unknown is taking over, I guess. I'm sure that issue will come up later, they have to stop pushing the button at some point.

maddie at October 7, 2005 01:19 PM

Did we see the Policeman book on this episode? I remember seeing Turn of the Screw, but not the other.

gunther at October 7, 2005 02:27 PM

Gunther - esmond stuffed the book in his satchel as he was leaving

chuck at October 7, 2005 02:39 PM

I google mapped, but I'm not sure I get the whole coordinates thing. What was I seeing? Uncharted ocean where they could have likely crashed?

Michael at October 7, 2005 03:38 PM

I think it's just a random long/latitude cooridinates where the mystery island could exist.

chuck at October 7, 2005 03:46 PM

"Uncharted ocean where they could have likely crashed?"

If you zoom out, it's a place pretty well placed between Australia and California. I think that was the spooky part.

maddie at October 7, 2005 04:18 PM

I didn't think of the numbers as coordinates at the google map thing was really cool to me. Thanks, Yahtzee!

Joey Jo Jo, I forgot that we're still "last fall" as far as the show goes. The 2001 book still fits in.

Maggie at October 7, 2005 04:24 PM

if you use for your coordinates:
latitude 4.18151
longitude: 6.2342
you will find yourself in nigeria.

sar at October 7, 2005 05:00 PM

efffffff. obviously i meant 4.8151 x 6.2342 sorry.

sar at October 7, 2005 05:10 PM

Got to thinking...isn't Howland Island around there? Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan disappeared while flying from Papua New Guinea to Howland Island, which is just north of the Marshall Islands. Howland is at 0.48 176.38. Follow the line between New Guinea and Howland.

We've seen what the island has done to other modes of transportation, and it dates back to at least the Black Rock. Why not Earhart's plane?

Ooohhh...and what about those two skeletons Jack found early on? (Not that I remember the details...I seem to remember them being older, but...?)

ladyjane at October 7, 2005 07:48 PM

Yeah, there was speculation when they found Adam and Eve that it could be Earhart. I liked that theory, but I doubt if that's the case now.

Chuck at October 8, 2005 08:04 AM

For all you Chronicles of Narnia fans - I noticed on this call sheet I posted -

it has the book Prince Caspian on the props list for that day.

chuck at October 8, 2005 11:52 AM

Found this about Turn of the Screw / Henry James: "Like many writers and intellectuals of the time, James was fascinated by “spiritual phenomena,” a field that was taken very seriously and was the subject of much “scientific” inquiry. The field remained popular even after the unmasking of the Fox sisters, whose claims of being able to communicate with the spirit world had started the craze for spiritualism in the 1840s. Henry James, Sr., and William James were both members of the Society for Psychical Research, and William served as its president from 1894 to 1896."
God, the Lost writers are loving these clues!!!

Moxie at October 9, 2005 09:18 PM
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