Really, worst episode of the entire series. If I was supposed to feel sympathy for Shannon before she bit it, they failed. Even if the death wasn't hyped out the ass and I wasn't 100% spoiled for it happening, I think I still would have obviously seen they were going to invoke the "Buffy Principle".

The only interesting things from the whole episode were: Sayid seeing Walt and confirmation that the whispers signify the coming of the Others. But now the question is, why have all the mid-plane castaways that have heard the whispers now been taken? Are they somehow designated "off limits"?

Joey Jo-Jo at November 10, 2005 11:17 AM

I thought it was weak. It wasn't smart enough last night. Very predictable and I felt like they dumbed down for sweeps and for anyone who may have just walked into the show.

The whispers were the highlight. I felt no sympathy for Shannon and I don't think they focused on her enough this season for us to have a strong reaction to her death.

Next week looks pretty interesting though.

yogagirl at November 10, 2005 11:21 AM

I totally disagree. I enjoyed this episode quite a bit. I was pretty sure it was going to be Shannon that bit it, and that's fine with me. She had no purpose left on that island. She never did anything much and there's nothing for her TO do, except be Sayid's girlfriend. I am bummed that we won't get to find out more about her and Boone's relationship, or her relationship with her father, but c'est la vie.

I'm just not sure what you were expecting. Really? The WORST EPISODE EVER? Yes, the death was hyped, so it was pretty obvious it was going to be Shannon. But if you hadn't read spoilers or seen a single commercial for the episode, do you still think it would have sucked? I wish that TPTB wouldn't have told us someone was going to die, but I understand that television is a business and they have to generate ratings.

Sayid heard the whispers and hasn't been taken yet. Unless you count Danielle, but she's not part of the Others.

freakgirl at November 10, 2005 11:25 AM

before I get into it.. Freakgirl I love you! Thanks for opening up comments... so sweet, so sweet! Karma right? ;)

Soosan at November 10, 2005 11:26 AM

I totally disagree. I thought they did add some sympathy for Shannon. Also, I knew someone was going to die but it was totally working on the whole Hitchcock maguffin thing. I was thinking - is it Sawyer? It can't be Sawyer - that's too obvious. But then he collapses and is unconscious. And then Shannon goes running off towards the others and you hear the gun and I was like 'but they don't use guns' just as they did the big reveal. Very well done suspense.

You know sometimes I wonder why I read these tv show blogs because I almost never (with the exception maybe of post Mulder X files) watch a show I like and think 'wow - that episode sucked'. I'm usually satisfied and enjoyed it. And then I come here or to other blogs and it's like 'wow - why does no one else like anything on this show? and why do they keep watching it and commenting?'

genevieve at November 10, 2005 11:29 AM

Freakgirl - haha! I think we were typing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time...

genevieve at November 10, 2005 11:30 AM

I don't dislike much about the show...I just felt like last night was too easy. The reason I fell in love with the show is because it makes me think, it's not easy like most things out there right now.

yogagirl at November 10, 2005 11:32 AM

Usually people who are disappointed are ones who are spoiled...which is why I try to stay away from spoilers. However, I had heard the one about Shannon way back over the summer. I wasn't shocked it was her that died, but I thought it worked. Her "redemption" was kind of weak, though.

The whole getting-shot thing blew me away. (no pun intended) I was saying to the geekboy, "WHY WOULD THE OTHERS USE A GUN?" and he exclaimed, "jesus christ I bet it was Anna Lucia" and BAM! the reveal. Good stuff. Sayid is going to attack her, I bet, and then see Jin, Michael and Sawyer and then his head will fly off.

freakgirl at November 10, 2005 11:33 AM

I agree with you, freakgirl - I really liked the episode. However, I was virginal as far as spoilers go, and since I don't watch ABC for anything else besides Alias, I hadn't seen a promo about someone being killed since the end of the last new episode, a few weeks ago. I had forgotten all about it.

I wasn't a big Shannon fan, so while it was a shock to see her go, it was a good shock, if you know what I mean. Other good things: Sayid saw Walt, the whispering, the Cindy disappearance, Locke knows about the Virgin Mary stash, we know the teddy-bear-carrying-Udder is a kid that was taken from the tailaways, Michael finally asked what the hell was going on, the scene between Michael and Sawyer before Sawyer passed out...speaking of which, I missed some of that dialogue. Does anyone recall what was said?

If the Udders took the kids from the tail section and they are still alive, then that makes me think that they took Walt because he was a child, not because of his implied "specialness", which is what I had been thinking.

The look on Sayid's face when he was holding dead Shannon was unbelievable. I would not want to be in Ana Lucia's shoes right now.

I'm looking forward to next week - the previews looked awesome!

gina at November 10, 2005 11:35 AM

The last sequence definetly was the higlight of the episode.. and please, how can an episode featuring shirtless Sayid be weak? (Sorry, single female here...)

Anytime dripping wet backwards speaking Walt appears I get a serious case of the heebie jeebies.

So who saw Jack at the hospital during the flashback? Guess whoever thought it was Shannon's Dad during Jack's previous flashback was right. When I saw him I physically pointed to the screen and yelled "a-HA!", like I was some sort of Sherlock. I amuse myself.

Soosan at November 10, 2005 11:36 AM

I dont think it was the worst episode. and sympathy for Shannon ? What about sympathy for Sayid, poor baby he just declared he loved her. Also are we absolutly sure Shannon is the one who died, I mean what about the woman from the tail section who dissapeared while they were takeing Sawyer up the hill? Yeah I agree though Shannon is a pretty useless person, so needy.

leah at November 10, 2005 11:43 AM

Pretty sure it's Shannon... only serial killer's in movies can survive a gunshot to the chest.

Soosan at November 10, 2005 11:45 AM

Oh yeah where is Jack? havent seen him in a while and does anyopne know what Walt sid last night.

leah at November 10, 2005 11:46 AM

So has anyone rewound what Walt was saying?

Count me in as one who was completely UNspoiled and enjoyed this episode. I can not stand Ana Lucia and can't wait for Sayid to go all prehistoric on her ass.

Jane at November 10, 2005 11:51 AM

I enjoyed the episode very much. Yeah, we all pretty much knew it would be Shannon. But it was fun to see Jack in her flashback. Fun to see how she ended up in France -- presumably by taking the "au pair" job that her fellow dance instructor turned down.

And the setup for the coming weeks is rich. What should have been a "happy" joining of the two ends of the plane will instead be poisoned by Ana Lucia's unintentional killing of Shannon. Sayid did not look pleased, and we all know what a prick he can be when he's not happy. Hating her will give he and Sawyer something to bond about.

Thank you, Claire, for tipping Locke off about Charlie's "Virgin Mary" stash! Now it remains to be seen what Locke does about it.

Can we please just all agree to never use the phrase "Worst Lost Episode Ever"? Seriously, I'm getting so tired of hearing that, not only here but on other boards as well. It's an ongoing show that appeals to a broad base precisely because it ebbs and flows between character development and action, between mystery and sci-fi. So some episodes you'll like, some you won't. It's subjective. So enough with the emphatic obective proclamations.

I feel like we're at a point in history where TV viewers are more cynical than ever. If it's not as good as the best episode, then the show sucks ... until the next great episode, which only raises the bar higher, making viewers more critical. I think some people would be happier if the show were consistently mediocre all the time, just to keep them from getting their hopes up.

Anyway, sorry for the lecture.

Can't wait to see next week!

GeekBoy at November 10, 2005 11:55 AM

> So has anyone rewound what Walt was saying?

http://www.thetailsection.com/waltspeak.mp3

cory at November 10, 2005 11:56 AM

One of my fav lines last night was when Locke & Charlie were talking and Charlie made a comment about how Claire had a lot to learn about being a mother. Locke's reaction in saying that was a bold statement from a heroin addict made me chuckle. I was thinking the same thing.

You know, I forget sometimes that the original castaways don't know about the tailies or that Michael, Jin, and Sawyer are back on the island. I expected a happy meeting, and I think the most surprising thing for me last night was the way the writers took a different route.

yogagirl at November 10, 2005 12:02 PM

Hmm, I can't get that link to work, but word at TWOP is he is saying, "They're coming, and they're close."

Jane at November 10, 2005 12:08 PM

It was cool seeing Jack in the hospital; love that they gave us that clue a few episodes back. Shannon will never know that Jack chose to save the girl over her father. Interesting.

As for the lack of Jack and Kate, I assume they were on Hatch Duty. That's an easy way to give two characters an episode off every now and again, eh? :)

freakgirl at November 10, 2005 12:14 PM

Well ... if Walter was talking about the other survivors, he was right then. They were just around the corner! :)

GeekBoy at November 10, 2005 12:14 PM

> Hmm, I can't get that link to work...

Maybe try going to thetailsection.com and clicking on the link there?

Interesting that screams still sound like screams when you play them backwards.

cory at November 10, 2005 12:23 PM

If the others only took people and didn't kill them, who was the dead guy in the jungle when jin and mr. eko went out to look for michael?

ceecee at November 10, 2005 12:23 PM

I'm hoping the reverse of what Walt said is a red herring. Somehow I find it lame.

I would have liked for Shannon to say to Sayid last night, "With all the freaky shit going on on this island, why wouldn't you even consider the possibility that Walt appeared...even if in a vision?"

And considering that the Ana Lucia group and Sayid and Shannon heard the whispers while they were near each other on the island, is it possible the whispers were each other or some plot by The Others to cause a death?

I was not exactly overwhelmed by the quality of the episode but I didn't think it was terrible.

All season, though, I have been thrown off by the need of Walt, Jin and Sawyer to yell all the time while the rest of the crowd is anxious and quiet. It would seem like after a few minutes let alone a few hours or days that they would naturally quiet down.

But next week looks like the balls!

Jason at November 10, 2005 12:29 PM

I agree, Geekboy, I don't understand a lot of the negativity. I sometimes feel like a Pollyanna, or worse, not discriminating enough. Thank you for putting into words so well the way I feel about the "ebb and flow" between character development and action.

I wanted to add to my previous comment that I thought Maggie Grace did a really nice job with her swan song. She never struck me as a particularly good actress until recently, and especially last night. The look on her face as she realized that the doctor was telling her that her father was dead was heartbreaking, and since I lost my father in a similar fashion just last year, it packed a punch for me.

Anyhoo...anyone think we'll see a scene next week with Bernard saying he knows his Rose is alive somewhere? And what do people think Ana Lucia did for a living before the crash? She's way too skilled with the gun and the attitude for her to have become that way *since* the crash, imo.

gina at November 10, 2005 12:29 PM

wait, did he say close or clones? Maybe my hearing is bad.

Jason at November 10, 2005 12:34 PM

The dead dude in the jungle was Goodwin, who Ana brought up last night. I imagine we'll see his story as part of the Tailers backstory next week.

I am on JJJ's side with this ep, I'm afraid. The only redemption I found in the episode was knowing that Sayid is about to go batshit crazy on someone.

Damon said the mid-season shows are the ones we'll start seeing Claire and Charlie in more frequently. I can't wait to see how that pans out, especially with the new Locke dynamic.

sar at November 10, 2005 12:49 PM

Maybe if creepy Walt spoke normally he'd have a better chance at warning people eh? :)

Soosan at November 10, 2005 12:55 PM

One thing on Gina's earlier post -- I didn't take the question about the kid among the others ("Did you see the kid?") as being a reference to one of the children from the plane. My mindset was more that one of the othes is a child. Am I crazy?

yahtzee at November 10, 2005 12:56 PM

"They're coming, and they're clones"? Man. That would be awesome.

I hadn't been spoiled about Shannon, and was kind of expecting a big fake out, especially when Cindy went "missing." But that said, I was a little underwhelmed by Shannon's death. Maybe that's just because I never much cared for her character or her romance with Sayid.

Also, when I saw her and Sayid walking through the same kind of tall grass the other castaways had been walking through, I kind of had a suspicion they'd be meeting up. And I FEARED it'd be the shooting-the-wrong-person thing.

And it was!

Rain at November 10, 2005 01:00 PM

It sounded more to me like "I'm coming and I'm close".....ew ew ew!

jess at November 10, 2005 01:00 PM

I thought it was a great episode last night. We got some more character development without it being the "regulars" or the hatch or any of that business. More plot was revealed in the first three episodes this season than all of last, so the character development was welcomed. Shannon's end was not much different than Boone's and her fathers - flying pieces of metal debris. Maybe I'm full of crap on that, but thought it worth mentioning. Little Shakespearean subtlety.

Ara at November 10, 2005 01:06 PM

Well, maybe we'll get to see some old school Repbulican Guard torture on Anna Lucia. (God, I can't stand her...)

These vidcaps make me wonder, though:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1539/screencapsofshannonsdeath2ib.jpg
http://soulykeeper.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=clues2&action;=display&thread;=1131630737

Sure as hell doesn't look like a gunshot wound to me. More like a stabbing. Maybe A-L was shooting at whoever stabbed Shannon? How did Carol disappear so quickly? Maybe she was a plant in the tailaways and stabbed Shannon? Maybe this episode is better than I thought. Nothing is *ever* as it seems on this show...

Joey Jo-Jo at November 10, 2005 01:45 PM

I like that Rose doesn't like the hatch. Aww Rose, we love ya!

Soosan at November 10, 2005 01:54 PM

Wow. That really does look like a stab wound -- like with a machete -- not a gun shot wound.

Curiouser and curiouser!

GeekBoy at November 10, 2005 02:13 PM

Joey, you're right, that does not look like a gunshot wound, but more like a slash. So maybe AL shot whoever it was that cut Shannon? Interesting.

But a bit of a cop out, I think. That would let AL off the hook and that doesn't make me happy - I WANT Sayid to have it in for her. Maybe I'm just projecting.

gina at November 10, 2005 02:18 PM

Hey, here is a thought... rearrange Darhma and you get DRAHMA! :)

Soosan at November 10, 2005 02:23 PM

Long time reader of the TMFT LOST comments -- first time poster. You guys rock. I love reading your insights.

This wasn't my favorite episode, but I always enjoy watching this show, last night included.

One question -- while I assumed Shannon was at Jack's hospital, and figured we were flashing back to when Jack's future wife had the accident with Shannon's father, I TOTALLY missed seeing Jack in that scene! I'm kicking myself. And I have no TIVO. Where was he? Any screen shots available?

christarenee at November 10, 2005 02:34 PM

Christarenee,

It was so fast that if you blinked, you missed it. Freakgirl had to rewind and freeze frame to see it. It's the first scene in the hallway, and Jack kind of brushes past behind the doctor who is telling them that Shannon's father died.

GeekBoy at November 10, 2005 02:39 PM

Christa, Jack walked behind the doctor as he broke the news to Shannon and her stepmother that her father had died. (he's in his scrubs) (and welcome!)

Re: Shannon's wound and the possibility it was a machete: there was a scene shortly before Shannon gets killed where Mistereko is leading the group through that tall leafy grass and he walks in the direction of the camera and cuts the hell out of the grass with his MACHETE. Not my Mistereko!

gina at November 10, 2005 02:41 PM

Hey, a co-worked just threw another theory at me -- that either Cindy or Libby is the "Ethan" of the tail-aways. Cindy being the woman who disappeared and Libby being the blonde psychologist. If Cindy's the Ethan, it would explain why she disappeared so suddenly, perhaps to go get the other Others. If Libby's the Ethan, she might have been responsible for Cindy disappearing. And the compelling thing about saying it's Libby is that she's a psychologist -- just like the people who created the hatches.

Anyway, food for thought.

GeekBoy at November 10, 2005 02:43 PM

"Hey, here is a thought... rearrange Darhma and you get DRAHMA!"

Also, as mentioned elsewhere, IMDb has Thomas Gibson credited as appearing on last night's episode.

Thomas Gibson of "DHARMA and Greg" fame!

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004959/

Rain at November 10, 2005 02:44 PM

Thanks! I'm bummed that I missed that detail, but it's good to know you guys are on top of it and can provide a good description.

I also checked out those images of Shannon's wounds -- definitely not a gunshot. So, were the makup people just sloppy? I kinda doubt it.

My only (stupid) complaint about last night's episode was Locke's piss-poor swaddling skills. On a show that's all about the details (i.e. Shannon's wound, books on shelves in the hatch, etc.) it seems like they should've at least had Locke perform an accurate swaddle.

Sorry. New mom here with an expert swaddler for a husband. We were watching that going, "That's never gonna hold!!!!"

christarenee at November 10, 2005 02:50 PM

eek, the Ethan of the other side theory is like totally like wiggin me out man!

Hi christarenee!! Yeah, Jack was really quick. I had actually heard the rumours of Shannon's dad being in Jack's flashback so was actively watching for him... hence my "A-HAH! point at the screen" reaction. I scared the bajeezus out of my kitties.

Rain, that is also freaky.

Soosan at November 10, 2005 02:52 PM

Geek-Boy, I think that the tailaways have alread had their own Ethan, which is why Libby said a few episodes back that they have "trust issues". (At least, that's what made sense to me.)

Joey Jo-Jo at November 10, 2005 02:58 PM

maybe goodwin was their ethan

genevieve at November 10, 2005 03:01 PM

Oh, good points, both JJJ and genevieve.

Christarenee, I'm willing to give Locke points for understanding the basic concept of swaddling, and why it's important, without perhaps having had any experience with actually doing it. After all, Locke didn't seem comfortable with holding a baby, which tells me he hasn't been around many. I get the impression he knows so much about so many things because he's read a lot of books -- maybe one of them was about baby rearing?

GeekBoy at November 10, 2005 03:06 PM

Stating the obvious, but next week will be a very interesting episode. We have lots of things to look out for... especially who was and wasn't on the plane right?

Soosan at November 10, 2005 03:17 PM

Oh sure, Geekboy, I give Locke points, too. I'm being super nitpicky. It's just that Locke normally does everything well -- he's Mr. Expert on everything. And, supposedly that swaddle "worked" in getting Aaron to sleep -- Claire was "amazed" that he was sleeping so long. In order for a swaddle to work, it needs to be done right. Loosely wrapping a baby in a blanket does not a swaddle make, nor would it cause a baby to all of a sudden fall asleep.

I love Locke, and I loved that he knew about swaddling. I just wish they'd showed a real swaddle. That kind of accuracy would've blown me away!

On the point about Libby possibly being an Ethan -- we both thought she was acting really weird toward Sawyer when she was inspecting his arm and he said "it's bad" and she was all creepy looking and said "yeah, it's bad... but, it's not THAT bad." I don't know. She seemed creepy, so I kind a like that whole Ethan theory.

christarenee at November 10, 2005 04:09 PM

So when has anything (except in the flash backs) been so easy. I'm tellin ya I dont believe shannon is dead. Ya know Sayids pissed off look could just be because to him A.L. is a "Udder". Yeah, I'm not doubting shes injured but then Sawyer looked dead too.

leah at November 10, 2005 04:10 PM

Shannon: "But I'm not dead yet. I feeel HAPPY!!!"

Wouldn't that just be a big "eff you" to the media that's been falling all over itself with the "Lost Loses Another Character" headlines?

But I have a feeling that's not the case.

GeekBoy at November 10, 2005 04:22 PM

We thought Libby said "it's bad but it's not that bad" so oddly was because Sawyer's wound is REALLY, REALLY bad, but she didn't want to agitate him any more than he already was.

freakgirl at November 10, 2005 04:22 PM

I would think if there was an "Ethan" at work with the tailaways, he/she would have been obvious to them by now, especially since at least 9 have been taken. Once Ethan took Claire/Charlie, he was outed pretty quickly. Who knows, who knows. My head hurts.

Soosan at November 10, 2005 04:31 PM

ps. I hope Libby isn't an "Ethan", I like her so far.

Soosan at November 10, 2005 04:38 PM

Christarenee, that cracks me up about the swaddle! My husband and I have a five month old baby, who requires MAJOR swaddling, but I just figured maybe Claire's baby wasn't the terror that ours is! We were cracking up that our "escape" show, Lost, had swaddling tips on it! I thought last night's episode was great, I mean, really great. I was spoiled about who died, because my husband knew and I made him tell me. I'm okay with everyone else knowing, but if he knows and I don't know, I can't stand it. But I was still surprised and creeped WAY out with Walt. I LOVED Sayid's crazed nod when Shannon said, "Did you see Walt?" I refuse to pee on any of these episodes. This is a great, great, show. I am surprised every new episode, by *something* and I literally can't say that for any other show that I watch. Tonight, for example, we're going to watch STUPID Alias, which is re-using plotlines from the first season. Boo. I agree with the GB, as usj, that we are going to have to just judge the season (or maybe the whole show) as a whole and not get so nitpicky. It's much, much more enjoyable that way!

Joanne at November 10, 2005 04:52 PM

I thought that, too, fg, that Libby was just trying to spare Sawyer's feelings and the infection was worse than she let on.

As for possible "Ethans" in the Tailaways, I don't think Cindy could be a candidate since I'm pretty sure she was a flight attendant.

gina at November 10, 2005 04:54 PM

Shannon was my favourite character - I like poor little rich girls. So I am pissed off they killed her off in such a lame way and she only got one proper flashback episode.
It was bad enough that they had to kill her pretty step-brother!

I hope someone slaps Ana-Lucia in the face in the next episode. Hard. Hopefully Kate.

Trash Addict at November 10, 2005 06:07 PM

Joanne, that's funny! My baby is now 10 months old, so we don't swaddle him anymore, but we did for a full 6 months and boy did it get that little bugger to sleep -- he was sleeping through the night at 6 weeks; hence, my lunatic swaddling ramblings.

I think you're right about Libby, freakgirl and gina. I don't know why she weirded us out, but it makes sense that she was just trying to make Sawyer feel better about his rotting arm.

christarenee at November 10, 2005 06:47 PM

We were watching that going, "That's never gonna hold!!!!

That cracked me up. Funny, and true.

Was anyone else SO excited to see Boone again? Shannon dying is sad and all, but does that mean no more Boone in flashbacks?

I had no idea Shannon was dying. I saw the preview, but was sure it was just gonna be one of the people from the back of the plane.

Michael at November 10, 2005 07:06 PM

I didn't know anyone was gonna die, so I was pretty wrapped up in teh whole thing. The girl who plays Shannon grew on me over the past 2 seasons and I think she's a pretty darn good actor, so sorry to see her go. Plus that leaves leaves Lily as the only female hotness on the show. And GB - I agree with your semi-rant, and not just about this show, but about the overall increase in cynicism and the lack of sincerity that is happening in our country. Sarcasm and rolled eyes have replaced genuine conversation and sincere eye contact. LOST rules.

chuck at November 11, 2005 09:55 AM

That's why I enjoy talking about tv with my mom or sister. Both of them stay off the internet for the most part, so they're not all world-weary with information when we discuss things. It's nice.

It's like magic tricks. Yes, I know that the magician didn't actually read my mind and pick the exact card I did. If I wanted to, I could go and research and find out exactly how he did it. But why? It was cool.

freakgirl at November 11, 2005 12:42 PM

Soosan, I think it's possible that the Tailaways could have overlooked an infiltrator. If memory serves, the Lostaways figured out that Ethan was not a passenger because Hurley had been "taking roll" and comparing his list to the plane manifest. If the Tailaways didn't have a manifest, would they have noticed an extra person?

Melissa at November 11, 2005 01:44 PM

Melissa, yeah I see that part of it.. I'm just thinking that after Claire/Charlie when missing it was much more obvious something was a bit fishy, and then well Ethan went all apecaca.

i've said i love this show right?

cuz i do...

Soosan at November 11, 2005 03:05 PM

I don't know if anyone's still reading this comment thread, but I wanted to give you all (especially Tivo users and tapers) a heads-up reminder that tonigt's episode is "extended", which according to Yahoo's TV Listings means it's 64 minutes long.

Enjoy!

gina at November 16, 2005 01:23 PM
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