That opening minute, with the passengers and the tail plummeting into the water? Chilling! I had to rewatch it over and over. And after the show finished, I watched it once more.

This definitely put Ana Lucia and Eko in a different light for me, but there's still far more we need to know about both of them, and I look forward to their flashbacks. I'm more convinced than I was before that AL is a cop, and there's something in the way she paused before saying she's not a mother.

I read on a board somewhere last night the statement, "Ethan totally OWNS Goodwin. Ethan was all, like, a supervillain, and Goodwin was so like ... not a supervillain. He got his ass handed to him by a little 5'6" girl." Heh.

This episode really worked for me. Filled in the gaps nicely, and created some new questions about our new castaways.

GeekBoy at November 17, 2005 07:29 AM

It worked for me too, totally. It was really scary, I thought, which is a different experience than before. Before it's been creepy, paranormal, etc., but last night I was really scared! I am looking forward to a little more information on Ana Lucia, because right now she seems kind of one dimensional - it seemed sort of rushed that she promised those kids that they would get back to their mother. Good looking out on the teddy bear, I was wondering about it but didn't see it. Probably because I am a baby and had my hand over my eyes through half the episode! NOW I can't wait until next week, again!

Joanne at November 17, 2005 08:08 AM

Can someone please explain to me why people STILL think Libby is a plant from the Others? The TWOP boards last night were filled with posts about Libby being an other. Just because she says she's a Clinical Psychologist? You can't be a Psychologist in the Lost universe and not be working for Dharma?

And I guess that ends the "Shannon was stabbled/Anna didn't shoot" argument. I watched it in slow-motion, and Anna shot Shannon. But, once again, we have inconsistencies. When we saw the scene with the tailiaways hearing the voices, it was sunny out, and Anna yelled "RUN!". This week? Raining and no yelling. They *can't* just be this bad with continuity, can they? They MUST be doing it on purpose. Maybe they're just fucking with us?

Joey Jo-Jo at November 17, 2005 08:40 AM

My vote is "fucking with us."

I effing LOVED this episode. It was like watching the pilot all over again.

My thoughts: I swore last week that we'd find out Ana had children taken by the Others. But she was on the flight alone, apparently. There's obviously something going on with her that we'll see in flashbacks, I assume. It appears she has some sort of military training...maybe she's a bounty hunter. Wouldn't that get Kate's panties all in a knot.

Eko came across so much less scary this week. A big old teddy bear. My bet is that he is a priest and has some sort of connection to the supposed Nigerian drug runner plane that killed Boone. My dream scenario is that since he could have indirectly caused the heroin to be on the island, he can be the one who helps Charlie through his eventual overdose or whatever.

freakgirl at November 17, 2005 08:56 AM

If the producers are so insistent that the characters are not dead and stuck in purgatory, why are they giving so much evidence otherwise? The others apparently only take "good people", which explains why they want the children (who has a cleaner souls than children), and why they didn't try to take Eko the second time. (He's tainted now that he's killed those two others. )

Also, as far as Eko goes, for now I'm gonna go with "really religious ex-con". After he iced those dudes, he struck me with a very "I thought this part of my life was over" kind of feel.

Joey Jo-Jo at November 17, 2005 09:04 AM

Eko... great character and so well acted!

Again with the "evil" Ccanadians... I just had this feeling when Ana asked Nathan where he was from the response would follow suit. I guess that was to make us think he really was in cahoots with Ethan, plus Nathan? Ethan? Could the names be any more similar?

I liked how they had the Boone radio cameo. It was already well known what the broadcast over the radio said, but it was just so nice to have the confirmation it really was from the tailaways.

I like to go back to what we thought we knew at the start of the show, and what we actually know now...

I pity my coworker who gave up after the pilot thinking "its just some jurassic park type show..."

Soosan at November 17, 2005 09:19 AM

I don't get the feeling they're in purgatory at all. As for "good people," we don't know what their definition of "good" is. Why isn't Bernard good? He appears to be a lovely man. I think there's more to that statement than good versus bad, and I really hope they revisit it at some point.

freakgirl at November 17, 2005 09:24 AM

oh oh oh and the "not a good person" thing.

Claire and Charlie were taken, and I guess Charlie must be considered pretty bad... I mean.. that hanging was pretty bold. Also, we still don't know how Claire escaped? Is she bad? Lucky?

Soosan at November 17, 2005 09:25 AM

hmmmmmmmm.... still thinking (damn you LOST)....

maybe good doesn't mean good as in walking that old lady across the street good. It could be a descriptive good.. such as..

"that person is GOOD to use for our evil other master plan"


Soosan at November 17, 2005 09:26 AM

Did anyone notice with the others that were killed and the feet in the jungle that they all wear the same clothes - like they're in a cult or something.

genevieve at November 17, 2005 09:41 AM

FG and Soosan, I'm with you, I don't think good just means good in this case. At first I thought maybe they took the kids because they only wanted young, healthy people but why not AL or any of the others? Maybe they're trying to fill slots? Like they need a certain amount of children, men, women, etc.? Because they were clearly still short one little boy when they went for Walt. So, did Goodwin get the list for the Others on that side of the island and Ethan made a list on the front side?

Joanne at November 17, 2005 09:49 AM

i want to back up a sec... people still think Libby is an Other???

Soosan at November 17, 2005 09:53 AM

Apparently some people think it's suspicious that Libby has stated twice that she's a clinical psychologist (or whatever it is).

Of course, both times she stated it, it's because she was ASKED.

freakgirl at November 17, 2005 09:58 AM

I see... I mean didn't they see her come out on the beach injured and soaking and helping that guy with the broken leg? Goodwin however, dry as a bone and from the jungle.

I was shaking in my boots when the others were standing around them at the campfire. That scene was positively chilling.

Soosan at November 17, 2005 10:16 AM

I loved, loved, loved this episode.

I agree with what someone upthread said about Ana Lucia's character being too one note right now. I am hoping they will fill her in a little more. Because I am so over the superbitch thing.

Love Mr Eko more than anything, he is awesome. I loved his 40 days of silence, as I totally feel that way sometimes myself. Just want to be quiet. But it could easily tie into a religion thing, fits nicely into the priest theory.

Can't wait for next week. Oh, and a question... can anyone explain why the previews in Canada are different than the previews in the US?

Julie at November 17, 2005 10:55 AM

I'm posting a lot today, does that surprise anyone? anyone? :)

Julie, it's a different network that's why. CTV airs a lot of american programming but normally has their own previews. CTV gives more dialogue while ABC goes for the quick clip adrenaline rush.

Soosan at November 17, 2005 11:00 AM

p.s. Maggie's post title is the greatest ever.

freakgirl at November 17, 2005 11:05 AM

So how did the US Army knife end up on the island in the first place? They got it off one of the dead Others, right?

Jane at November 17, 2005 11:22 AM

i'm just going to say that i really enjoyed that episode. i really loved to see the links between the two survivor groups. however, i really really had a difficult time watching Michelle Rodriguez. i just don't think her performance so far has been all that good. i don't think it is the writing as much as it is her delivery. my humble opinion.

despite this, i liked the format of last night's episode; the strange sound editing, the tension, the amazing opening sequence. i found it a little strange that the group didn't explore the hatch as much as one would think - in fact, it seemed too brief to me, as if they were under whelmed - but hey, they only had one show to cover the whole time on the island of the other survivors so everything had to be summarized.

sandra at November 17, 2005 11:53 AM

Let me add my voice to the chorus of approval. I really liked it, for all of the reasons stated. I'm asking myself all of the same questions about the meaning of "good". And about what was in that box in the bunker: blankets, a radio, a bible and a glass eye. Um, OK.

I just wanted to add that while I enjoyed speculating about an alternate version of Shannon's murder, I was very happy that the writers chose the killer to be AL. It's a much braver choice and there will be a much bigger dramatic payoff.

Next week can't come soon enough!

PS I love your post title, too, Maggie.

gina at November 17, 2005 12:24 PM

I had the impression from this episode that this bunker was maybe smaller than the other. Not so much to explore.

Not too much to add at this point, other than I loved this episode. The contrast between the lifestyles of the two groups was really interesting to watch. Just how it went differently for the tail-end group. Any theories on why the Others have made their presence knnown so strongly to one group but not the other? Is it a geography thing? Or are there no "good" people from front of the plane? Except for Claire/Claire's Baby?

Remy at November 17, 2005 12:31 PM

I thought they acted a little underwhelmed about the bunker too. But then I just thought it had to do with the fact that they hadn't been spooked by polar bears, and unseen monsters, and apparitions, and hidden caves with black and white rocks, and pretty much thought they had landed on a "normal" island (aside from the maruading band of Others) so finding an old bunker on it wouldn't seem so weird. (Especially when opening it just required the turning of a nob, and not sticks of dynamite.)

Rain at November 17, 2005 12:31 PM

I'm with everyone that's a bit tired of her one-trick act. Perhaps next week when she has to live with the guilt of killing Shannon she'll drop the Rambo act.

I'm wondering about her past, too. Someone guessed cop, did anyone say military?

One of the things that occured to me last night was that the similarity between Ethan and Nathan weren't coincidental. That perhaps Ethan was assuming Nathan's identity from information gotten by the Others watching the tailaways, but got the name wrong...misheard or misread from a note or list. If Ethan had said Nathan, he would have been on the manifest and Hurley and the rest would never have known. I'm not sure if the logistics of that work out, but it was a thought.

Maggie at November 17, 2005 12:40 PM

yeah... what WAS with that glass eye!!

Soosan at November 17, 2005 12:41 PM

damn maggie, that's thinking outside the box. You go!

Soosan at November 17, 2005 12:42 PM

I feel like they didn't have the time or the energy to explore their bunker because of the situation.

After getting ravaged by the others on at least 3 different occasions, they probably weren't sleeping...they didn't seem to be eating very well and, in the grand scheme of things, went straight to a kind of Lord of the Flies style Island experience than anything else.

Ana's only desire is survival, Mr. Eko went silent and the other three just seemed desperate for both of them to protect and guide them.

That said, I'm glad next week we get back to Jack, Kate and the gang.

Sayid vs. Ana is going to be good shit.

Jason at November 17, 2005 01:03 PM

"They didn't seem to be eating very well and, in the grand scheme of things, went straight to a kind of Lord of the Flies style Island experience than anything else."

Meanwhile, the castaways from the front end of the plane have been doing kind of a Lord of the Rings thing. You know, because of Charlie. Who was a hobbit. In the movie. By Peter Jackson. Get it?

Would "Lord of the Dance" have been a funnier way to go here? Picture Hurley, Locke, Sayid, and Jack all Irish line dancing. Metaphorically.

Sorry, I'll go crawl back into my hatch now.

GeekBoy at November 17, 2005 01:23 PM

you mean hobbit hole... crawl into your hobbit hole...

Soosan at November 17, 2005 01:25 PM

GB, this is pathetic, but I never read the Lord of the Rings books, which horrifies and disgusts my husband. But anyway, when the movies were coming out, I was so confused, I was like where's Piggy? Where's Samneric? Thank God I met my husband, so I could appreciate your joke now!

Joanne at November 17, 2005 02:13 PM

I can't remember if we discussed this previously, but does the Cindy character raise a red flag with anyone? The way she just disappeared like that last week, and they made a point of showing in the flashback this week that she disappeared? Might be nothing, might be something. Thoughts?

I just looked her up and I didn't realize that she was the flight attendant that slipped Jack the extra bottles of whiskey he had in his pocket when they crashed.

freakgirl at November 17, 2005 02:17 PM

I think it was just to remind us she dissappeared... just part of the fast forward portion of "remember when?"

seriously, Susan... GET TO WORK! :)


Soosan at November 17, 2005 02:20 PM

LOVED this episode. We were totally gripped. And scared.

RE: Libby -- I don't think she's an "Other" but I do think it's significant that she's a clinical psychologist, otherwise they wouldn't have made a point of her having the opportunity to offer that info on multiple occasions.

But, then, what on LOST isn't significant??

christarenee at November 17, 2005 02:37 PM

I'm surprised that no one else has brought this up..Maybe I'm just crazy.

I thought Rose has said from the beginning that her husband was in the bathroom when the plane crashed..How could Bernard have time to run to a seat and strap himself in? I'm sure this doesn't mean anything, but it's so unlike the writers to let something like this go.

Doug at November 17, 2005 02:38 PM

well, so was charlie and he managed to strap himself in, so i think it would be possible. he in fact could have been on his way back to rose when it all began to happen?

sandra at November 17, 2005 03:03 PM

Yeah, he would have had time to leave the bathroom and sit down, put on the seat belt. Charlie and Rose had time to discuss it, so Bernard had time to do it.

Maggie at November 17, 2005 03:05 PM

I thought he actually was sitting in the tail end of the plane tho. I remember Rose talking to Jack at length and holding on to his wedding ring because of that? Am I having false memories...

Soosan at November 17, 2005 03:10 PM

Yeah, I don't see a problem with that. He would have time to strap himself in. He certainly wouldn't sit there on the toilet in the bathroom while the plane shook around.

Of course, I'm EXPECTING the writers to give us a Rose/Bernard flashback episode this season, so we'll know for sure.

Hello, Lost writers, are you reading this?

GeekBoy at November 17, 2005 03:12 PM

I'm pretty sure Rose and Jack were talking when Bernard went to use the bathroom. I imagine when the turbulence started, the flight attendants put him into the nearest empty seat.

freakgirl at November 17, 2005 03:27 PM

This just occured to me....if Goodwin and Ethan had time to infiltrate the groups almost immediately after the crash, that means that the Others had planned in advance to make themselves one of the group(s) that land on the island. And the speed with which they did that raises the possibility that the Others were able to predict and/or cause the plane crash. (Did someone say this already? Or am I truly having a revelation?)

Possibly related question - what would make a plane break apart mid-air, then crash?

Sandy at November 17, 2005 03:27 PM

So I'm having false memories? I swear he was seated at the back of the plane... or maybe that was her wedding ring she was twirling. Why am i so fixated on this?

Sandy sounds like a revelation to me.

All I know is that since this show, flying hasn't been so fun. I kept imagining the plane ripping apart! bad bad bad. :)

Soosan at November 17, 2005 03:40 PM

According to this site -

"Bernard is mentioned numerous times by Rose, who still has his wedding ring on because Bernard's fingers swell at flight altitude. Bernard is in a tail section bathroom when the crash starts to happen."

freakgirl at November 17, 2005 04:54 PM

GB, dude. I'm telling you, 02.14 is supposed to be Rose's ep. "How Rose Got Her Groove Back" -- awesome! I am seriously looking so forward to that.

I agree with everyone that said this episode ruled. HARD CORE ruled. I wish we could have gotten a little more info out of Goodwin before he was impaled, but don't look a gift horse, blahblahblah. At least we got more from him than we did Ethan.

I missed the show last night, had to see it via torrent today. Can y'all tell me if there were previews for an ep next week, or are we waiting 2 weeks?

Also, Maggie, thumbs up for the title. :) Heh.

sar at November 17, 2005 05:34 PM

Also -- as far as the paranormal thing goes, do they not HEAR that alarm going off constantly? Was I making that up? But in the start of the ep, I swear when AL was looking into the forest I heard the alarm. And then again and again when they were walking through the forest.

sar at November 17, 2005 05:35 PM

We got a preview here. Short but sweet...involving Ana L. and Sayid.

Sorry, what alarm are we talking about? I didn't remember hearing any alarm.

Yeah, I thought I was pretty funny with the title, too. ;)Originally I wanted to put "Bernard and Poor Bitch..." but that would have been lost on anyone who didn't watch Wonderfalls.

Maggie at November 17, 2005 06:42 PM

I shed a single tear for Wonderfalls.

FG, thank you for putting my mind at ease. Turns out I have a poor memory, but that's ok... at least my ass is smokin. :P

Soosan at November 17, 2005 07:13 PM

Aw, Poor Bitch. We hardly knew ye.

freakgirl at November 17, 2005 10:22 PM

"Charlie and Rose had time to discuss it, so Bernard had time to do it."

Um, I can't believe I'm still calling him Charlie. He's JACK! JACK! Stupid Party of Five.

Maggie at November 18, 2005 12:05 AM

Maggie, I still call Jack Charlie, which confuses me because there is a Charlie. I think I'm just now getting it straight.
Sandy said "And the speed with which they did that raises the possibility that the Others were able to predict and/or cause the plane crash."
Or I was thinking that they have some kind of communication with people in the real world, which is how they got the list.

Sara at November 18, 2005 08:24 AM

oooh Sara that's an interesting point.

I was thinking maybe the psychic from Claire's flashbacks... but I don't think he knew about the others, he just knew the plane would crash and she'd be forced to raise the child on her own.

Still... I'd like to know more about that particular backstory, if there is more to know that is. :)

Soosan at November 18, 2005 09:36 AM

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but couldn't the Others have gotten the list via Ethan? Hurley had some kind of flight manifest when he made his list of survivors over on the other side of the island, right? If Ethan copied it or something and talked about it at...Others Tribal Council...they could have cross-referenced it with the information from Goodwin about his side of the island.

And I'd like to add that I'm OK with Ana-Lucia being a little one-note right now. How long did it take for Sun to become something more than "Lady who cowers from her husband and doesn't take off her sweater"? The slow decompression on Lost can be intriguing.

brian w at November 20, 2005 11:17 PM

I didn't watch Lost until this weekend so I'm just now reading this thread. FG--though you prob won't even see this since I'm so late, we did know that Ana Lucia was alone on the plane b/c remember in one of Jack's flashbacks she had a drink with him at the airport bar while they were waiting for their flight? So we knew she was alone. I don't remember much about that episode but I think I might remember that she got a weird phone call on her cell while she was in front of Jack, and she had to excuse herself from hanging out with him. Then later we saw them board and knew they were on the same flight. My theory, and it's not that exciting, is that Ana Lucia DID have children at some point and they might have died, a la Dr. Kovach on ER. Hence the pregnant pause before she said "no" in answer to the kids question.

emily at November 21, 2005 01:13 PM

I just wish I could stop watching this show!

Bubbi at November 22, 2005 08:10 AM
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