"So....Rose's husband is white. Didn't see that one coming."

I love Hurley.

freakgirl at December 1, 2005 01:56 PM

he said what we were all thinking... awwww, hurley.

Soosan at December 1, 2005 02:08 PM

hahaha.....Yeah, Hurley's the best.

Usually I try to condense my discussions here from the lost listserv I have with my friends, but today I'm both busy and lazy, so this is going to be a bit long, because I'm gonna just paste my email in here:

Okay, so Kate killed her "step-father" because he turned out to be her real father. In cold blood, no less. This is her 4th god damn episode, but still, STILL, her story makes NO SENSE. I just don't understand the math. "You're my real father and you suck" = "I must kill you"? And her "real" father (Mr. Military) never told her that Wayne is her biological father because "I knew if you found out you'd kill him". Huh? You're telling me FROM BIRTH you knew that she was crazy? And If Kate was fathered by Wayne, but Mr. Military and Kate's mom didn't split up until Kate was 5, what the hell is going on there? And who the hell was stationed in Korea in the 70s? Too much of this episode was wasted on Kate BS, and not enough on tasty hatch info. I don't give a crap about Jack/Kate/Sawyer (from now on, referred to as "Jateyer") or whether that horse was real. Still better than the recent Shannon episode, though...

Speaking of tasty hatch info, Eko with the film RULED. (I swear, I was going to go apeshit if they didn't show the new film section, especially when they were wasting time on that horse stuff.) I didn't expect that section of film to actually be a removed section of Film #3. I just figured that film #3 has been watched so many times that it's been broken and patched again and again. The secton was cool, but didn't really tell us anything we didn't alreay infer earlier. ("Do not use the comp...." is kinda self-explanitory.) So, this leads to obvious questions: Who removed it and why? And why stash it in a bible in a different hatch? The easy answer is The Others, but that doesn't make that much sense. The Others know about the hatches, and can enter and leave them at will to screw with the occupants? And you would think that if whoever took the section of film truly wanted it gone, wouldn't they burn it rather than hide it?

"Do not confuse coincidence for fate." Eko is THE MAN! Seriously, they could kill everyone off and just leave Eko and Locke and I'd be totally happy. Best show on television.

I'm glad someone finally said, "Hey, can I check out these machines and trace where some of these wires go?" I though it would have been Sayid weeks ago, but apparently not. The cliffhanger was great.

There was a lot of talk last night on the TWOP boards about some websites: http://bigspaceship1.com/ http://www.marvincandle.com http://www.kingcrossstatepolice.com/ They were all discussing them as if they're canon, but I'm not convinced any of these are real. Also, there's been an update to The Hanso Foundation: http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html (Click on the picture)

I totally didn't see this, but someone's got some sharp eyes: http://lost.cubit.net/pics/sayidArmyOffice.jpg?PHPSESSID=e7d76264b28ba7f287bb650cc9e5e072

Also, I had heard some rumblings about Marvin Candle looking sifferent in the spliced film, but now here's some comparison: http://lost.cubit.net/pics/candles.jpg The difference may only be because the film has been played many times, while the splice has barely been played. Opinions?

Lastly, there are ALREADY freaking ANIMATED LiveJournal icons of Jack and Kate making out. Give me a break. And did that kiss totally not make any sense to anyone else? It was about the unsexiest kiss since Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie.

Joey Jo-Jo at December 1, 2005 02:08 PM

I thought it hilarious that Sawyer was convinced they'd been saved until Kate finally took him outside. "Oh you have GOT to be kidding me!" Heh.

Jane at December 1, 2005 02:24 PM

Oh i LOVED Eko and his Coincidence/Fate comment...

I bet he and Hurley would have some lovely banter...

Soosan at December 1, 2005 02:24 PM

JJJ, I can't disagree more. I felt that Kate's back story made her character much more coherent to me. I have some perspective on this, though. My parents divorced when I was 5, and I was raised by my mother, who reinforced in me the idea that my father was The Antichrist. But she never stopped to think what saying bad things about my father would do to an over-thinking boy who grasped the concept of genetics. "If my father is such a bad person, and I am my father's son, then maybe I'm a bad person too." I spent much of my twenties untangling how much of me was my mother, how much was my father, and how much was neither. But I grew up always feeling guilty, even though I hadn't done anything bad -- and this sticks with me even now, when I know better.

So I can definitely see how finding out that Wayne was her father would send Kate into an existential tail-spin. Not only does she hate this man because he abuses her mother, but she hates him all the more because she IS him on some level. In her mind, killing him was a desperate attempt to kill the "bad" side of herself. Except it doesn't work that way. Because killing him just self-fulfilled the prophecy -- she did an actual very bad thing, earned her guilt, and earned her mother's hatred.

It's all very Greek tragedy. I love it!

GeekBoy at December 1, 2005 02:27 PM

haha, Sawyer. "Son of a BITCH!"

So.. is that dark horse s'posta be her real dad coming back to save her? After she killed him? ...wha'?

sar at December 1, 2005 02:28 PM

so why didn't they just watch the ENTIRE reel of film that was in the book instead of cutting out that section????

Grace at December 1, 2005 02:35 PM

i thought they spliced the entire reel of film into the existing one. no?

also, maggie, that title made me laugh.

sar at December 1, 2005 02:37 PM

Because the "entire reel" was just the cut section, so they just inserted it back into the movie.

Joey Jo-Jo at December 1, 2005 02:37 PM

and to show us Locke really can do everything, including splice movie film :P

Soosan at December 1, 2005 02:38 PM

I did think the Kate flash back was illuminating. I hated the whole horse thing though.

I did not see "Dad?" coming at all. Do we think the indicent referenced in the movie was what destroyed the other hatch?

I found Sayid oddly unconvincing at the funeral; not Naveen's best scene.

yahtzee at December 1, 2005 02:49 PM

OK, I'll say it. Forget Jack and Kate, how freaking HOT was Jin last night in that opening scene? Holy crap. He was all ripped and postprandial and whatnot. Dayum.

Michael at December 1, 2005 02:58 PM

so hot you could fry eggs on his chest?

Soosan at December 1, 2005 03:00 PM

I saw "Dad?" coming about 2 seconds before it happened. But only because the other day, I was saying to Freakgirl, "I bet Walt's with his mom (who I believe isn't really dead) on some other part of the island." So I was eager to jump to the conclusion that it was Walt on the other end of the line.

Meanwhile, when does everybody think those blast doors are going to come into play? Because you know sure as hell that Michael didn't point those out to Locke/us for nothing.

GeekBoy at December 1, 2005 03:31 PM

I'm going to do what JJJ did and copy and paste my comments from an e-mail thread I have going with friends:

I’m sounding like a broken record but again, I really liked this episode. Kate isn’t a favorite of mine, but I don’t hate her (I don’t have a severe dislike of anyone on the island, actually), so I didn’t mind seeing more of her backstory. I sort of get the whole “I killed him because after the years of him drinking too much, beating on my mother and looking at me the wrong way, finding out he was my real father was the straw that broke the camel’s back” reasoning, and that she’s attracted to Sawyer because of the whole redneck/bad boy similarity to her father, but I didn’t quite buy the father’s reason for not telling her that Wayne was her real father: “Because you would have killed him.” Huh? Was she a particularly murderous little girl? Anyhoo, she’s going through a serious inner struggle with her badness (something else she has in common with Sawyer – and I like her better when she’s interacting with Sawyer than with Jack – she’s more relaxed), and I think the kissing of Jack was a way to try to connect with the goodness in him. But he didn’t seem to react the way she wanted him to.

So, the horse. Since Sawyer saw it, too, I say it’s similar to the polar bear, in that something on the island made it manifest itself from her subconscious mind. What does it represent to her? I don’t know. Her freedom? The horse helped her get away from the Marshall and on the island she is certainly free. Pretty horse. I think Sawyer/Wayne attacking her and asking her why she killed him was the same thing – from her subconscious mind – but Sawyer telling Jack that he loved Kate was really Sawyer. (Or maybe that was Jack’s subconscious revealing itself?)

I liked all of the hatch stuff. Locke and Eko make a great pair. I nearly jumped when I saw it was the cut piece of film in the bible, but sadly it didn’t reveal much more than I had already surmised – don’t use the computer for anything besides inputting the code. Interesting that doing so will bring about another “incident”. What does that mean? Is that really what will happen? And where is the power source coming from for all of this?

The best part was, of course, the “Dad?” !! I may be dense, but I did not see that coming. I was too freaked that Michael was using the computer for something besides inputting the code right when the guy was telling them not to. Is that really Walt, or an island trick? Another question: When Michael looked at the countdown clock, was it stopped at 23:00?? Did he stop the clock, and that's why the computer said "hello"? I'm so confused (and I love it!) I actually taped it last night because I was doing laundry at the same time, so I’ll have to take a look at that again.

And what are those blast doors all about?? Do they shield the place from something like an EMF pulse or “incident”? Michael really is a Renaissance man, huh? That guy can do anything.

I liked the scene between Jack and Ana Lucia, too. Like Kate is with Sawyer, Ana Lucia is more palatable when she’s interacting with Jack.

I see the castaways have started putting down roots in the area, with their little hut village on the beach now. I was thinking last night that we haven’t had a storm episode yet, where a hurricane or typhoon or something blows through.

And the award for the most visually pleasing moment of the episode goes to: Jin, baby. Woo!

gina at December 1, 2005 03:36 PM

I figure the blast doors may come into play when they decide not to key in the numbers and the counter hits 0. I'm guessing sometime next May. :)

kyle at December 1, 2005 03:50 PM

last week's preview was such a fake-out by the way (the canadian one). It lead you to believe that Locke missed the countdown, but no sirree he got it right in the nick of time.

Soosan at December 1, 2005 03:51 PM

Oh, and another thing...I did want to make a comment about Michael and the computer. I thought maybe they should have racked up the drama there a little bit more, insofar as they are marooned on a desert island and here is a possible connection to the outside world, hence a possible rescuer, and Michael's just like, "Oo, someone wants to chat. Neat."

gina at December 1, 2005 04:17 PM

but was it really walt, or a trick? The spliced video said something about how station 3 may try to use the computer to communicate but refrain because of the "incident" yadda yadda bla bla bla

any thoughts on what the incident was?

Soosan at December 1, 2005 04:33 PM

I thought it was a good episode, too. I think the backstories are more consistent this season, as far as answering questions we may have about the characters, from Ana Lucia to Kate, to even the Marshall. I don't really get the disappointment in Kate's backstory, though. She did it, here's why, let's just go with it. I have to disagree with you, JJJ, I can't imagine a show with just Eko and Locke, Eko hardly ever talks! I feel like an idiot, but I totally didn't see the "Dad?" coming. Who knows who it is, it could be Walt (but isn't he with the Others?), or it could be Walt just showing up in the computer, same as he showed up to Shannon, that is, not really there. Is it true that we're not going to have any new episodes til January?

Joanne at December 1, 2005 05:32 PM

The hatch stuff was excellent this week. Locke, Eko and Michael should just sit around chatting about their situation. That's absolutely golden tv. Once Sayid gets his head right, he can join too.

I agree with the sentiment that Naveen didn't sell the funeral well.

As soon as Jack and Ana Lucia hung out, they both were much better.

Sawyer really does need a haircut.

I'm super confused by the Kate stuff. Where does the robbery fit in? Her con artistry? Et Cetera, Et Cetera.

Maybe that's the point though. Maybe none of her story is real.

There are points where I get the feeling the show is like the film "Identity" and they are all the elaborate split personalities of a schizophrenic mind trying desperately to keep it together...hence all the interconnectivity.

But I'd be so pissed if that was the case. Identity wasn't that great a flick.

Jason at December 1, 2005 06:06 PM

My thought on the whole Kate deal is that she's got a similar background to Sawyer -- in other words, Kate feels that she is inherently "bad" in some way because Wayne is her biological father. Consequently, she decided to "go bad" and ended up getting into the crime stuff once she was already on the run after the murder. Kinda like how Sawyer took on the identity of a "bad" person because of something that happened in his childhood.

I know what I'm trying to say but am not doing a very good job explaining myself.

I did really like the episode, except for the funeral which seemed really forced and cheesy.

christarenee at December 1, 2005 07:18 PM

Chronologically, doesn't Kate's story go like this?

Blows up Yucky-Daddy,
Turned in by Mom,
Gets Childhood Doctor Friend to sneak her into the hospital to see Mom,
Mom freaks (daughter killed YD, afterall),
Kate runs, gets CDF killed,
Kate's wracked with guilt, goes on to break into bank just to get the plane that she and CDF put in a time capsule long ago.

So really, she's not all that crimey, just caught in a spiral after going about the wrong way to help her mom.

brigita at December 2, 2005 08:04 AM

'Crimey'. Hee.

Nice recap, brigita. That makes sense.

That reminds me of when Kate asks her Dad why he never got rid of YD and he said he never had murder in his heart like she does. Whoa.

Michael at December 2, 2005 08:34 AM

Just to clarify something gina said.....

The horse didn't help Kate escape from the Marshal. It was a deer that ran in front of the car, not the horse. The horse didn't appear until she was just about to drive away.

Joey Jo-Jo at December 2, 2005 08:54 AM

Oh! I will have to re-think my views on the whole horse meaning, then. Thanks, Joey!

gina at December 2, 2005 11:04 AM

wow i forgot about kate going to visit her mom, and her mom totally freaking out. It makes SO much more sense now! Thank you for the recap.

Soosan at December 2, 2005 11:23 AM

Am I the only one who thought they were laying on the irony a little thick when Good Dad told Kate that he didn't have murder in his heart when he was all suited up to do a little recruiting for the Army? I suppose the argument could be made that taking a life in a war situation isn't murder, per se, but still.

As for that split second shot of Said on the TV: holy CRAP. I had to watch that scene three times to see it and I knew what to look for! Someone out there is making their LASIK surgeon proud.

brigita at December 2, 2005 12:27 PM

Hm...But how does Kate's mom KNOW what she did? I still say the evidence is too circumstantial- how do we know for SURE that Kate killed yucky-dad? Just because she was sitting in the room with a lighter then leaving the place after settling him down. The blast just seemed...too coincidental to me...she'd have to have planned it to the nines and knowing EXACTLY when Wayne would get home and EXACTLY how long to get out before KABOOOOOM. Although Oddly enough when the scene panned back out of the house I said to myself...."3...2....1..." and BOOM.

FuzzDuckie at December 2, 2005 09:44 PM

Brigita, yes! Delicious irony! I was so busy trying to put together plot that I missed it!

As for your series of events, I don't know. I guess it makes sense, given what we know, but if that's all there is, I'm not satisfied. Is that all the plane is, a symbol of innocent childhood love? If I understand correctly, she risked capture twice to get it. Hmm. I guess I want to believe she's more cunning and pragmatic than that.

For me, Kate's more interesting when she's diabolical rather than pathological. Killing Yucky-Dad over identity issues is pathological. Getting Sun to poison Jin (although Michael was actually poisoned) so that Kate could get off the island seems more diabolical. How about when she was reading the letters in the bottle? If she was trying to find her own letter, it's understandable. But what if she was trying to read the other people's letters? The information in those letters could have been quite useful. Diabolical? Overall, if her basic motivation is to run away from her bad side, she certainly hurts a lot of people in the process. . .which is bad . . .

I am glad the writers didn't play the incest card. I thought that was coming, but they faked me out.

I wasn't faked out about "Walt" on the computer. I suspect the communication via computer is a stalling device (by the others?) to distract the button-pusher until time runs out. Or maybe, due to island wackiness, the computer is like the Mirror of Erised in Harry Potter; you see what you want to see and become lost(!) in it. Consequently, you fail to push the button. Or maybe chatting just fries the old circuits . . . Please say we don't have to wait till January for more.

Melissa at December 3, 2005 01:13 AM
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